Freelancefolder

47 Comments

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  Derek - Click Consultants

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:57 am

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  Hey Mike,

  I really feel this article is meant for just about anyone who does work over the Internet. There seems to be a lot of users on that internet that feel that it is their God given right to get everything they want instead of working for it.

  I’ve dealt with my fair share of people that I’ve sometimes just wanted to bitch-slap or get in to a war with them on a forum or blog, however, as you said I’ve always found that it is simply not a good way to portray your business image.

  Again, great article!

  -Derek-

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  Federico Capoano

  May 23rd, 2008 at 7:09 am

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  I had a lot of these type of clients, and i just let it go away.

  Anyway, the girl in the picture with that angry face is very nice! :-)

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  Chris Wilson

  May 23rd, 2008 at 7:38 am

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  Great post!

  I’d also point out that it can also lead to negative referrals which could encroach even further into your relationships with existing “good” clients.

  Better to just hold your tongue and do your job the best you can. Then once the project is complete, fire them.

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  Susie

  May 23rd, 2008 at 8:21 am

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  This reminds me of a story my father told me, old generation body fender man. He was working on a car, the damage was on the right side, the client kept coming in, during the process, no, no, fix this, this color is not right, when all was said and done, the client came in, looked at the work, walked to the left side, and said, you didn’t notice this dent?

  People want their money to go the distance, and they will push, there are many vendors and freelancers to choose from. Biting your tongue, and focusing on the positive is a great route to go.

  Loved your advice Mike, and it is hard not to let it carry over in your home life, aggravation and negative energy breed like a virus, but positive attitudes and energy can do the same as well. Nicely written.

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  Mike Smith - Bootstrapping Blog

  May 23rd, 2008 at 10:37 am

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  @ Derek. thanks for stopping by and commenting :) Always a pleasure to hear what you have to say

  @ Susie. thanks for the comments and I’m glad you liked the article. Not so happy you could relate, because well, it’s not something I’d wish on anyone. but Thanks :)

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  Karen Swim

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm

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  Excellent advice! I have bitten my tongue more than a few times and never regretted sucking it up and moving on. It never helps the situation if you give in to the negativity. Learn from the experience and let it go.

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  Andrew Hyde

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:15 pm

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  Reminds me of a great day saving quote “Release their karma to themselves.”

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  Vladimir Poopen

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm

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  What about firing bad clients? I see nothing wrong with that.

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  JGM

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:18 pm

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  Good advice, and in the long run, if the client becomes to much of a drain, there is always the option of (tactfully) firing the client. Simply waiting for an opportunity to let them know that your schedule will be full for the foreseeable future, and then recommending another freelancer or company who could fulfill the same requirements is often a sane way of doing this. Getting rid of a client who is an emotional load like this is often worth as much as the client was bringing in monetarily.

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  Jim

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:19 pm

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  I agree for the most part with this article, but you can’t always not argue. Your work is on the line and if you release something horrible and anyone asks who made it, they’re going to point to you. How do you get around this? Having that sixth sense about a client, before you start work, is the key. what do I mean?

  Make sure you get enough information before you begin, not just about the job you’re doing, but about the client. Do they talk way to much about nothing? Do they call and chat, taking 20 minutes for a 2 minutes conversation? Do they constantly talk about a small budget? these are warning flags to say “I’m sorry, but I’m too busy to take your project”. It’s hard to say no to work at first, but you’ll be happier in the long run… hope this helps.

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  David

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

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  Great article! I’m a freelancer who works with php fixes/or coding from the scratch (all depends, like always) and well it’s really hard for me sometimes since at some point they are just unreasonable and makes you feel like striking right back at the client. Like susie mentioned, some of them try to push it as far as they can. Nonetheless, I’m just building patience. Although I’m a bit short-tempered myself…

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  Stefanie

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

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  This is one of those great articles where you can actually cross out the word “clients” and use “people instead and most of it will stay true.

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  TheMadCow

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:33 pm

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  What the article doesn’t tell you is HOW to deal with clients like that. Do you keep them? Do you fire them? Do you turn their own approval process against them? Or is it just as simple as making sure you’ve signed a statement of work with them that outlines the parametres of the project – including ample approvals along the way and caps on revisions? Also, getting deposits up front – at milestones and at finish – takes the bite out of most clients. Knowing that you can walk away from a project and still have been paid for most of it is a breath of fresh freedom.

  There’s ways to deal with mean clients like that –

  1. Paper trails.
  2. Involve more than one person, ie: the boss of the butt head. or even the principal of the company.
  3. Get the client to SIGN OFF on the initial stages prior to committing lots of work into something that they end up “not liking”.
  4. Take a management class on how to manage and negotiate with stubborn/unruly people. You’d be surprised at how you can turn a person around and get them to do what you want.

  -TMC

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  Bobby Dole

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:33 pm

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  Mike I usually just photoshop little pictures of male anatomy into their art work to alleviate aggravation.

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  Jake

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:36 pm

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  You wrote: “This effects not only you, but your entire family…”

  You mean ‘affects’.

  Just so you know.

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  Samuel Fox Lewis

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm

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  Great article. I know these kinds of clients all too well. One issue with your article, though..
  “Then it happens; you realize your client could care less about anything you’ve been doing for them..”

  It should say “couldn’t care less”. Could care less means they care at least a little bit. It’s a common mistake these days.

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  lineman

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm

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  After working on an MBA for a little while, I have learnd that you need to get as much detailed information from the client and be as detailed as you can with what you are building with a client sing off. So when he says, “xyz need to be on a new page”, you can say no problem but thats out side the work order. And charge them for it.

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  Nick

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:47 pm

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  There are plenty of articles out there pointing out the painfully obvious negative qualities of these jerks, but very little worthwhile advice on how to deal with these people. As a first time reader, I’d like to thank you for making my day just a little bit better, even if it was just to know that someone else deals with the same crap that I do.

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  Mr L

  May 23rd, 2008 at 12:49 pm

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  Who is the hot chick in the photo?

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  Melek

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:02 pm

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  my biggest reason to not argue with unruly clients is that arguing begets more arguing. kill em with kindness is the way to go. it calms them, doesn’t let you get ruffled, and defuses the situation. and you don’t have to kiss ass to do it, just something like “ok, so i believe we’ve had a misunderstanding about the project costs” or “what i understand you saying is that you thought I’d do X, but if we can refer to the proposal, you’ll see on like 4 that it says Y”. if you can avoid pointing fingers it helps things a lot. plus, you don’t feel bad about yourself later for sinking to their level and resorting to yelling and name calling.

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  Jon Phillips

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm

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  @ Mr L: don’t know, got the picture on iStockPhoto :)

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  Jon

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:11 pm

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  Sometimes you have to educate the client on what they should be doing. If they choose to not listen, then yes, do what they ask for.

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  Marcel

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm

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  What do you do when your freelancer actually robbed you. I see a lot of articles about pain the neck clients. Lots of them. I see no articles about how to get your money back when your freelancer takes your money and runs. See my story here: http://diarist.com/reviewing-maestros-getafreelancer-com

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  Nick

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm

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  I charge time and materials for these clients. If they want to change more stuff then that’s okay with me. Clients tend to be more flexible when every change gets places on the bill.

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  CT

  May 23rd, 2008 at 1:51 pm

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  See if it is a work-related issue or not. As a client myself, I get unruly if I feel the provider doesn’t get it right and doesn’t care. I’d actually have more respect for someone who takes enough pride in his or her work to get upset if he or she disagrees.

  There is a tendency to quickly say the client is bad, mean, etc. these days. However sometimes the work and results don’t measure up. As a business owner you see a lot of half-assed efforts out there by people who want the money but don’t want to to do the work. If you do a good job very few normal clients- even demanding ones- will have a problem with you. I also tend to feel that sloppy work shows a lack of respect for me as a client, and you have to be harder on people like that.

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  Chunder Bucket

  May 23rd, 2008 at 2:02 pm

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  A great proactive step to take to avoid problems, miscommunication and agitation is to do your best to manage expectations. It is pretty surprising sometimes how totally clueless a client can be about the job you do, how its done, and what outcomes are reasonably expectable within the limits of the project resources and timelines. Outlining some of these tasks can go a long way to getting the client to better understand the demands placed on you, and in turn, engenders more respect for the work you do.

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  Mike Smith - Bootstrapping Blog

  May 23rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm

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  Thanks for the wonderful comments everyone.

  Thanks to Jake and Samuel Fox Lewis for pointing out the spelling errors.

  Maybe if Jon likes me enough, I’ll do a follow up article on ways to deal with the clients, with a more in depth approach. :)

• 

  lol

  May 23rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm

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  If you are good at your profession then you can easily find another client; fire them.

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  Jon Phillips

  May 23rd, 2008 at 2:39 pm

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  @Mike: of course buddy! :)

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  Renegade Conservatory Guy

  May 23rd, 2008 at 2:45 pm

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  I find that quite often biting your lip with really awkward customers, can often generate you lots of recommendations. Sometimes customers you think would never recommend you can actually be your most fervent recommenders!

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  Joe Levi

  May 23rd, 2008 at 4:23 pm

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  I agree entirely. The unspoken point of the article is that you’re simply and employee doing what an employer tells you to. You may be the subject matter expert, and it’s up to you to try and convince them to do the “right” thing… but if their opinion of the “right” thing is different than yours, they’re paying you… so they get that right.

  How does one go about combating that? If you’re an hourly employee, you can rest on the fact that it doesn’t matter what you say or what they say, you’ll be paid for every single minute you work on the project. And time-and-a-half if they make you work more than 40 hours per week. Of course, that’s not the attitude that you want to display (”sure, I get paid by the hour”)… Rather, you want to display the attitude of: here’s my input, here’s my justification of thinking that way, and here are my suggestions; now, tell me what you’d like me to do and I’ll do it.

  That doesn’t necessarily translate into freelance work — but it should. Why shouldn’t you write into your contract how much money they’ll pay for each additional revision? Or how much extra per hour they’ll pay if the project goes beyond the contractually agreed upon amount?

  Freelancers usually write their own contracts, or blindly sign contracts from clients. Just think of it the way cell-providers do: you get so many minutes per month, as soon as you go over that (or start using features that aren’t included in your plan) you pay through the nose for them. The cell-companies don’t argue with you, they just send you a bill. If you don’t pay, they don’t get mad, they just cut off your service.

  Why should you be different? Don’t get mad, just charge them for what they didn’t bargain for. If they get mad, just don’t deliver the final goods, or don’t sign over the copyright to them if they’ve already got some.

  It’s just business… and you shouldn’t do it for free — or get mad and argue over it…

  – http://www.JoeLevi.com

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  Dave Navarro

  May 23rd, 2008 at 7:58 pm

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  This is a key reason why it’s so important to get deliverables and signoffs arranged ahead of time, and then charge for change orders. That way, if you do “a little extra” you’ve earned a bargaining chip, but if you choose not to, they have no room to argue – you’ve given them their fair # of revisions and you can stick to your guns without having to involve emotions/tension. You can simply negotiate (change in scope, time, or money).

  From $500 websites (as a freelancer) to $2million gov’t contracts (as a corporate guy), clear requirements, reviews and signoffs save the day every time.

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  CT

  May 24th, 2008 at 11:34 am

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  Interesting how nobody ever even remotely considers the possibility that they perhaps might not be doing a good enough job. Just a thought from someone who often hires freelancers.

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  nM

  May 25th, 2008 at 5:29 am

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  I agree and disagree. Sometimes it’s correct to bite your tongue, and, I do so.

  However, I strongly believe that unruly clients, people, colleagues, or companies need to be put in their places at times. (and I do so.)

  It is impossible to do business with people who do not respect your values or your hard work.

  Many events will call for submission, but, there are cases where a strong argument, even explosion is warranted. This may result in either the client/person submitting, or exiting. In the case that it comes to such a necessary climax, either scenario is beneficial to the protagonist.

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  Wendy

  May 27th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

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  Great article. I had the misfortune of working of being an employee assigned to a client who clearly didn’t know what they wanted, and who weren’t happy with any of the 6 (yes 6!) revisions to a presentation that I happily and professionally presented to them. We had teleconference after teleconference where they proclaimed this that and the other. After said presentation, they still weren’t happy, and gave so-so feedback. I not only had to bite the bullet, but had to show a positive face to my employer as well as convince them that I did my best. And I did. There were apparently behind-the-scenes politics going on, which I had no control over. I did, however, feel like I was a punching bag, and it wasn’t pleasant. It caused tons of stress at home, too. Lesson learned? Just go with the flow and conduct myself with the utmost in professionalism, which I did. Oddly enough, I found out years later that said company went bankrupt.

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  Nicholas Paul

  May 31st, 2008 at 11:40 am

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  I’m with Vladimir – just fire ‘em! “Goodbye”

  OR how about (if there is a next time, for the client who is clueless as to their actual annoyance) give them a quote for, say, $10,000,000. For a 5 page website. They wouldn’t be your client much longer… WOOHOO!!

  plus you could have a good chuckle to yourself. I’m planning on this one myself actually!

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  PM

  June 5th, 2008 at 8:11 am

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  I always do the very best I can for every client regardless. My outlook is that if they are difficult to deal with, give them the service and a product that they could not possibly find anywhere else and when they come back again to hire you for another job, make it worth your while, charge them double. Of course they will gripe and moan and complain about that and usually walk away to find another person to do the work. But one or two jobs later and they are at your doorstep completely willing to pay you double because no one else would deliver them the quality of work and services because of their piss poor attitudes. then you charge them triple. ;)

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  M.

  July 11th, 2008 at 12:39 pm

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  I just had an experience with a client that was simply horrible. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is walk away.

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  Carolyn Clark

  August 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

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  My PIA client story:
  A client so self centered, confused about direction of her message, tech illiterate, princess complex, changes direction every 2 days, takes none of my advice. After too many lost hours of unbillable mush, I told her I cannot work with her. Then she comes back begs, apologies, claims she will be good – a month later despite delivering stellar products she starts with the same insanity including hiring another web developer to make changes on her site the same day she asks me to make changes.
  There are some clients that you should not take on and should be “Fired” if you see too many waring sign of trouble. My professors at design school stated this over and over again watch out for BAD clients you will loose.
  I have also won over many difficult clients – there is a difference- and turned them into really good clients!
  Good luck out there.

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