Freelancefolder

52 Comments

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  Comment

  January 7th, 2010 at 9:45 am

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  Hi

  Some valid points.

  I started out on Elance and it was great for getting my footing in freelancing and some feedback – a bit of a “name”. What I really like is that it is professional. I prefer it to Guru.

  You do however need to assess potential clients carefully. I have definitely found that many are just out for the cheapest bid they can get and are not really worried about quality.

  I only had one experience of not being paid, but at least it wasn’t too much money. I learned by getting burned!

  “The Winning Proposal” is a useful book for finding success on freelance websites.

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  James Costa

  January 7th, 2010 at 9:50 am

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  Great tips on how to work with these sites. I often find them frustrating and end up staying away from them, but you can’t deny that clients are going there and sometimes (mainly for smaller projects, in my opinion) it’s worth it to snag a couple of clients from there to pay what other client projects may not have been able to pay. :-)

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  Ed Gandia

  January 7th, 2010 at 10:02 am

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  Tim – Great post! You make some good points here. I agree that these job boards can be a great source of clients for freelancer. My recommendation (when fellow freelancers ask) is to not look at them as a silver bullet. They’re merely another client-attracting vehicle. You need a mix of marketing strategies, all working together, to be successful. You also need put a steady (and often massive) effort. As you point out, the trick to making Elance and Guru work well for you is to be more strategic about how to use them…and not go into them thinking you’ll pick up low-hanging fruit with little effort. That’s totally the wrong expectation.

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  Paul Ehrenreich

  January 7th, 2010 at 10:28 am

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  Very good read, I wish this was around when I was trying to score jobs on Rent-A-Coder. I might have to give elance a look in order to get my feet wet and start building a portfolio.

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  Gabriella

  January 7th, 2010 at 10:52 am

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  I will admit I still look at those sites for work when things are slow… Granted some of our on-going clients have been from Guru (3 years ago) things were a bit different then (budgets were better) but I have to tell you my experiences have not always been good. For example you mention that these sites do protect you or at least give you ample room to explain a discrepancy you may have had with a client. What you do not mention however, (at least in my experience) is they will always side with the client. Let me explain…One of the these sites blatantly states so in their “complaint area” that is if you ever do have to use them.

  I have lost over 2K due to such an incident. I don’t want to rehash it since I still get irritated about it, but not only did I loose the money once but, twice on two different occasions. The client actually had the nerve to come back and ask not only for his deposit but, the outstanding work that we had not submitted since he was so unhappy. Needless to say I had to restrain myself and politely told him no.

  I was re-assured by the job site that they would “watch” that client to make sure they do not have another altercation with another freelancer… Wtf ever, that client has not only used our work but has benefited from it and there was nothing I could do. In conclusion I am not bitter (not really just passionate) about these job sites and they do reap some rewards, just make sure you document everything that goes on between you and the client.

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  Kiefer Waight

  January 7th, 2010 at 10:54 am

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  Good post. I too found that there were alot of bargain hunters on those sites. I was instantly turned off to the site. I might have to fire up my old Elance account again :)

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  Deborah Brody

  January 7th, 2010 at 11:01 am

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  Although there are plenty of jobs to be had through these sites, freelancers should beware of the large percentage these sites charge. I had a job through Guru where the site flat-out took 12%, plus charged me $2 extra to get a check mailed to me. That is a lot of “commission.” Keep that in mind when bidding.

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  Ramona

  January 7th, 2010 at 12:12 pm

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  I don’t want to step any any toes, but this article is far from its very promising “land that client every time”. I was expecting something more than general things WE KNOW as freelancers. I am a reputable provider on elance and had applied these ideas from day one. it’s common sense, nothing new under the sun. For instance I’d like a more precise info about Guru since, even if I have the same portfolio on both sites (and I have done some pretty decent wordpress theming in my life) I was never able to land 1 client, not “every client” as you want us to think.

  The article in itself is useful, but I wouldn’t promise the world in the title, to just list issues you get in the watercooler in elance if you want or even in their FAQ section. Even with my 100% positive feedback and the fact I am in top10 of over 5000 people on elance who work on wordpress, doesn’t make me land each job. I would really like to know what secrets you have for us, more than this article, so that I can improve my rates even more.

  Not trying to put you down for this hard worked article, but it’s offers way less than it promises in the title.

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  Tim Wasson

  January 7th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

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  @Ramona,

  Sorry the article disappointed you, or if you felt it was a little misleading. Unfortunately not every freelancer utilizing things like job boards does find these tips common sense. I think the article did a good job at explaining which jobs to apply for, how to apply for them, and how to follow up. After these basic steps, their success rate is in their own hands. If you’re already utilizing all these tips, then great! I am sorry if you feel the article wasted your time.

  @Ed,

  Well said! Elance and Guru should not be your entire marketing strategy, but they’re nice for supplemental income/clients and are quick and easy to apply for.

  @Gabriella,

  Sorry to hear about your negative experiences there. Unfortunately there will always be people looking to rip us off, and we need to protect ourselves, whether we use job boards or not. Like you, I have landed really great on-going clients through the services which help balance out the one or two that took my work and ran off without paying.

  @Kiefer,

  There’s a lot of bargain hunters, that is for sure. But there’s also a lot of people who have a decent budget and clear plan, but don’t know of another way to get talented workers. THOSE are the ones you want to apply for.

  @Deborah,

  Good point and one I should have mentioned. Thanks!

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  Johnny

  January 7th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

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  I’ve too found my best clients on Guru and still work with some of them today. While I agree that seasoned freelancers shouldn’t completely rely on these job boards for work, this is probably the best way to start out freelancing for the noobs. If you’re new, you learn the whole bidding for work process pretty fast through Guru and the like.

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  Mosotomoss

  January 7th, 2010 at 3:47 pm

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  Great post. When starting off your freelance business. You have to be careful of “price shoppers”. The are the clients/customers, that only look at what price you can give them. They are never focused on customer service, or if you are going to be there when their business really needs you.

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  paul

  January 7th, 2010 at 4:03 pm

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  I started not so long ago, and I mostly land jobs on odesk which has not been mentioned. The advantage over Elance and Guru, is that it’s free to apply to jobs. They take 10% commision so account for that in your hourly rate or bid

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  Amber Weinberg

  January 7th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

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  Honestly I stay as far away from these sites as possible. Even when I was completely dead in business for the first 2 months of starting out, after wasting my time for a week on Elance, Guru, Rent-A-Coder etc, I stopped spending time on those and started spending time on real marketing and my business is much better and farther along because of it. Why don’t i like these sites?

  1) The clients NEVER have a realistic budget
  2) There are too many competitors offering to do the work for as little as $1 an hour
  3) The commissions you have to pay are ridiculous
  4) You have no control over the terms, you must follow the site’s terms, and I didn’t go into business to follow anyone else’s terms.

  Not to be harsh or anything, but I wouldn’t recommend any freelancer starting out to go on these sites, you simply spend too much time for too little return. You’d be much better served sending out cold emails, twittering and (non-bidding)job boards.

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  Anne

  January 7th, 2010 at 4:28 pm

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  Ack! You didn’t just post an article about Elance and Guru on Freelance Switch! Do my eyes deceive me? *rub-rub*

  Personally, I have never found Elance or Guru to be chock-a-block of wonderful client jobs – a waste of valuable time – in my opinion and experience of course. Nothing but cheapskates and outsourcing – the scourge of these types of sites, not to mention the tons of e-mails you get from outsourcing companies wanting you to hire them – just awful.

  I would recommend other, more reliable, and effective, methods of gaining quality clients.

  My 2 cents.

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  Tim Wasson

  January 7th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

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  @Amber – For the most part, I agree 100%. Elance and Guru are certainly not a large portion of my business or marketing, and I would caution people to put too many of their eggs in that basket. However, as @Paul and @Johnny mention, it’s a good way for people new to freelancing get started, and when used appropriately, it’s a good way for seasoned pros to fill in some gaps in their production schedule.

  @Anne – Freelance Switch? Wrong blog! Just like the real world, Guru and Elance are full of some bad clients and some good ones. I hope this article helped point *some* people in the right direction of applying to the right jobs and avoiding the price-shoppers. If you’re not someone who uses these boards, that’s great for you and whatever marketing you use must be effective, but let’s try to remain positive to those who do get good clients, and decent income, off job boards.

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  Anne

  January 7th, 2010 at 4:57 pm

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  Oops my bad – a typo. How silly of me.

  With all due respect Tim, my opinion about Elance & Guru and the like is what it is, and I’m not the only one to mention here that these are not really the best places to find clients, based on personal experience.

  Of course some freelancers find these sites useful, sure, and it certainly does take a certain type of freelancer to put up with all the negatives that go with the positive features as outlined in your well-written post.

  Not everyone will agree with one’s own point of view, and that is a risk any blog writer (and commenter) takes. It is good to have a dialogue and know the both the good and bad sides of the coin – then you readers can make up their own minds.

  I will always advise my fellow freelancers to avoid these types of sites if they can help it. And as I said, this is my own opinion – take it or leave it. There really are better ways to get good clients and build a decent portfolio, I would rather read a post about alternatives to Elance and Guru on Freelance Folder than ‘how to get work on Elance’.

  Again, just my 2 cents.

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  Tim Wasson

  January 7th, 2010 at 5:09 pm

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  @Anne,

  Believe me, I am not offended! We all have marketing techniques that have worked for us, and others that haven’t. Obviously I am not advising anyone to use these boards exclusively, but I don’t think any job-getting technique should be used exclusively, period.

  We’ve all got opinions and that’s what makes the world go round. Myself, and other commenters here, have had some good successes. Personally, I have never had success with a cold-call or cold-email. Other freelancers I know have an entirely different experience. This article didn’t help you or change your mind, and I do respect that stance on the matter and hope my next article is of more service to you!

  However, I do think bidding sites aren’t universally bad, if used properly. The article was meant to help people who have a similar stance on the matter. If you feel differently that’s fine, and I wish you best of luck in your marketing techniques.

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  James Chartrand - Men with Pens

  January 7th, 2010 at 7:26 pm

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  Good article. While some writers feel that certain types of work or mediums to land gigs are beneath them, I’m a big proponent of “find what works for you” and go for it. There are ways to work everything to an advantage, no matter what it is.

  And, even if you don’t want to use these sites full time, you can certainly still use them as starting springboards, because they’ll teach you a damned lot about business, hustling, how to pitch and bid, and what clients like and don’t. That’s valuable knowledge.

  For those who complain about the pay, I understand them. It can be frustrating to be offered low wages. But the thing is, no one is saying, “Hey! Go for those shitty, low paying jobs!” And no one is saying that cheap pay is great, or that you *have* to accept low rates if you don’t want to. (Note: some people DO, because some people NEED that work. NOW.)

  The article basically says, “Look, here’s one way to earn clients – and here’s how you can work it so that you land some really good ones.” I think, viewed in that light, it was worthy of being here.

  But that’s just me :)

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  Allen

  January 7th, 2010 at 10:56 pm

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  Great article for freelancers, especially for those starting out. Funny though, as I am actually getting back into Elance. I agree with Ramona’s point, and that maybe as a suggestion, the title be changed. Here are my thoughts regarding these job boards:

  I think every freelancer should have multiple areas to market themselves, and really sites like Elance isn’t a bad place to start. I started out on Elance a couple of years ago, and I do say I like the new look compared to the old. I found a couple of clients through the website, and it really helped me jump start my career.

  Since I am more into design and web development I had market myself in the web and programming category. Yes, I agree with a lot of the comments above that there are a lot of cheap-o’s on Elance, but I think the key is not to run into them and to bid with sense. There are features of Elance you can use to your advantage in helping you find the right client.

  I like the little feature that you can sort projects out with the projected budget amount, time frame, and when posted. One way I figure to sort out bids is adjusting the budget amount to what you are comfortable working for. I know that the higher the budget the less you see in possible projects (what a shame). I then adjust the time left to see what projects are about to end. The less time means the less time for a billion of other providers to bid. I wouldn’t bid on a new project right away because I want to see how many, and who bids on the project also. I like to look for the projects that are about to end soon and have a low amount of bidders. Gives you a higher probability to win the project. Another thing is to pay attention to who lists the project, and review their profile. Don’t be caught up with ones who posted 15 projects and awarded only 2 of them. My opinion on this is they could be using more than one job board to post a project. Also, look at who else is bidding. That’s why I wait before I would bid on a newly posted project. See who else is bidding first before you make your mark. Size up the competition to help you with your proposal. Proposal is key, you’re right be honest and original for each bid.

  This really helps me not to spend too much time on this site, and I can focus my marketing in other areas like LinkedIn and Twitter. Somehow not being on there for awhile my old profile is gone and I had to make a new one. Even though I didn’t have a billion clients on there before I had some really great reviews so it’s a shame I have to start over again.

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  Ramona

  January 8th, 2010 at 5:15 am

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  Thank you, Tim, for not taking offence, it wasn’t meant ;)

  Elance and Guru are “bad” when you think about some of the rates. I had to drop my rates A LOT to be able to compete. As said, I was able to make a “business’ only on Elance. My normal rates are 5 times bigger, but, since I was a brand new provider and in my country the business was dead, I had to make this huge compromise. Believe me it’s not plesant …

  In my business 2009 was horrid. I also lost my daily job as a radio DJ and had to start working fulltime on my small web design firm. I don’t think I had 4 projects all year long. Recession hit my country hard (my job loss was caused by it too) and when the firms can barely pay the taxes (they put a new one you pay even if you don’t earn 1 dolar), how was I to expect them to pay for websites? :D

  So, in the autumn of 2009 I had to decide between a low paid job in the media (that wouldn’t cover my payment for the car, not to mention food or other expenses) or take the bull by the horns and work in a dead industry.

  So I started on Elance and had to work on some low rates indeed. I did land few clients (the portfolio wasn’t bad at all, but I was new and they weren’t too attracted to a new provider), got raving reviews and it got better. I was able to make a living for the past 5 months with a lot of work on small rates. But the result is to have 1000 USD/month at least to break even.

  If you allow me to also provide few tips of my own (so that I won’t go tell you’re not offering it all and just expect others to do this):

  1. The profile is important. Once I started putting down my experience and providing a decent presentation, I saw an increase in my “success”. I took some tests (English so my clients realize we can communicate, even if I am not a native English speaker) and wordpress since I specialize in unique wordpress designs. once I took the test I started getting invitations.

  2. portfolio area .. tried to put some of my best work there and, the more items of value were there, the more interest people got in my skills.

  3. feedback – once I had a good feedback (100%) and excellent reviews people did get more confidence.

  4. rates – for a new provider getting a gig with a good price is a bit hard.NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but many clients are there to get a bargain. Some are cheapos indeed, some require lower rates than I would accept, some are mean. But there are clients who realize a good job is not made for 20 bucks and they act accordingly. The good thing was that, even if I did have some small rates,some of my clients paid bonuses (some were 100% of the initial sum I required), doubling my payment this way.

  So, am not telling anything new under the sun either, Elance and Guru are OK for some residual income. Even to make a living FOR SOME MONTHS as I am. Right now the web design market in Romania seems to be revived a bit since I got 2 web design project requests in 1 week. So I am a bit optimistic about this. My rates on elance are also gradually increasing and hope that in few months I can get to my actual rates. So far, they pay the bills.

  Sorry for the long post, hope I did contribute a bit with my own experience.

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  Stephen Webb

  January 8th, 2010 at 5:18 am

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  Being new to freelance bidding sites, their potential benefits but also their potential pitfalls, this was a compelling read. Clearly if used effectively work-bidding sites can be a convenient source of extra income and could build future business relationships that have implications beyond the site.

  The initial bid advice is quite refreshing, reminding designers not to do something they all too often do, bid at rock bottom prices for pieces of quality work. Also obvious advice such as replying on time and promoting your management qualities will assist you in landing a client.

  It will be intriguing to see the comments on this article and how many have used work-bidding sites previously, their experiences and whether or not they would recommend them to other designers.

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  Tim Wasson

  January 8th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

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  @Ramona – Yes, the rates some people are charging there are “bad”, and working for below your value is never recommended, but it seems like you did have some good luck with the services.

  @Stephen – Thanks for the comment! I agree that I would love to see some stories people have on using them in a good way vs. people that gave up. For me, I utilized them quite a bit when I started, although less and less as I’ve gotten busier. I wouldn’t have changed a thing about my experiences at the job boards. I grew my portfolio, i learned a ton, got some great clients I still have today. But I was smart and didn’t bid on the jobs paying $3/hour.

  Everyone’s experiences are different, obviously, and the commenters here have had good success stories and failure stories. Pretty standard of any marketing effort, I think.

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  Jaisa....I LOVE WEB DESIGN

  January 8th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

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  This article makes some excellent points

  Great concept. Got it right away! Beautifully executed.

  Thanks for sharing.

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  Nicholas Freeman

  January 8th, 2010 at 3:36 pm

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  I had never even heard of these sites. They dont come up in the circles I usually travel in; wonder if they have anything for graphic artists and photographers?

  well, I’m gonna see what use I can squeeze out of them. thanks for the tip off.

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  Inside the Webb

  January 8th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

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  ScriptLance is actually really good too, not sure if any of you have been on there. They charge a lot for a fee of finding you the job, but overall they have really good and useful projects

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  birthrecord.me

  January 12th, 2010 at 2:14 am

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  Are you kidding Tim, what the hell are you doing? You are just selecting a pair of wrong socks for the right shoes. Don’t tell the dam whole truth in this way. I often misguided by these two sites but I have never ever dared to disclose the fact. I shall tell you nothing but want to appreciate you for your sincere attempt. You just asserted the right thing in the right way. Go ahead.

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  DataMouse

  January 27th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

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  A great article.
  I started solely on Rent-A-Coder.
  I knew that there was no real money in it – often, I was working at a loss. However, it’s a great way to start your portfolio.
  Once you have a history of work, testimonials and can show live work, it makes your own marketing much easier. The downside is that these sites are, pretty much, slave labour.

  As long as you realise that there’s more to starting out as a freelancer than just the money, and go into these sites with your expectations set correctly, there’s nothing wrong with any of them.

  DM

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  Kristi Patrice Carter

  February 8th, 2010 at 1:11 pm

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  I totally agree with you that Elance is a great way to market one’s services online. In fact, Elance is the leading online marketplace for talent and there, you will always find a wide range of projects that you can submit proposals on and hopefully win. To date, I have won over 800+ projects and I follow all of the tips that you mentioned in your article. In addition, I always:

  - Ask for feedback from prospects as to why I didn’t win a particular project
  - Make myself available for buyers who didn’t choose me the first time.
  - Never give up but keep submitting individualized proposals, perfecting my craft and marketing myself.

  By doing this, I have done quite well.

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  Josh Walters

  February 12th, 2010 at 3:49 pm

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  Thanks… this is great insight.

  I’ll keep in in my wisdom box. Been working on a high quality project for Creative Designs, and this bites the bullet. Good job.

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  Sam Logan

  April 29th, 2010 at 5:20 am

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  Thanks for the great insight, I tried using elance a couple of years ago but with little success, just seemed like freelancer were getting ripped off.

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  Sandipan

  July 27th, 2010 at 6:07 am

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  Hi Tim,
  Thanks for the post. It is some what helpful for me but the points u mentioned are alomost common and known to most of the people deal with these types of sites. These points work for the small budgeted projects. would you or any one here please let me how I can bid for a big budgeted projects ( more then 1000 bucks may be) nad get reply from client?
  I guess the clients post big projects do not only look for the proposal written may be they want to see some thing more than that.

  You said one should show relavant examples of previous jobs matching with the one posted. But if the user does not have a matching example and is new to the market how can he get a job?
  From my previous experience i have seen that even if you have a hell lot of quality works outside elance the client does not seem to belive that the provider has done the job and the do not reply to the prposal.
  When a provider is new to elance client always try to get the project done in a lower cost than the actual cost of the job.
  Do you have any tips for the new provider without a portfolio but ability to execute the job successfully. coz in market everyone is new some time.

  Plese let me know these point. I wil be waiting for your kind reply.
  Thanks

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  newspark

  September 5th, 2010 at 3:08 am

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  Unless you live in a third-world country these sites (guru, elance) should be avoided like the plague!
  Especially for people first starting out. Why, because new people tend to grossly underestimate the time it actually will take to do the work.

  If you need to build a portfolio you should volunteer or work-cheap for a church or non-profit.

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  Jobsfor10$

  February 17th, 2011 at 4:16 am

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  In today’s very dynamic and ever changing labor market, there is more than just the conventional 9 to 5 job. There are a lot of options to work at home, doing exactly what you like, at your own price. Some of these solutions are: Jobsfor$10, Elance, Odesk and others. I have tried them all, and I chose jobsfor10$. The main advantages that Jobsfor10$ provides, by comparison to the other similar options, are:
  – you can find very specific services (example: 70 High Backlinks from sites with PR6-8, 35,000 Traffic Visitors To Your Website, submit your site to 230 Plus Search Engines, 2 ebook cover design, upload, install, and configure any script for your website, write a best 300 word above article on any subject , etc)
  - The prices are low ($5 – $10 – $20)
  - The work and payment are 100% guaranteed
  - There is no negotiation, as the prices are fixed
  - The signup process is very lean and easy
  - The website has a very smart services ranking service, that allows the customer to make the best informed choice

• 

  moi

  May 21st, 2012 at 4:08 am

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  Great post!!! Guys i found an online job at staff.com- it works the same way with odesk and elance. It really roocks!!

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